NO ONE ANSWERS - WHAT THE HELL DID JESUS WRONG

Youtube-conversation Feb.2009:


Ogmios
I have good reason to not only believe in Jesus, but to know him, but I like atheism too. Interestingly atheists are mostly the better humans and have not seldom a warmer heart than religious people, although some of them are missing the real sense of life. Anyway, I do not understand why some people have problems with Jesus. What the hell did Jesus wrong? I mean,...it really does not need that much of intelligence to make a difference between Jesus himself on one hand and those who sometimes badly minister in his name on the other hand, how can one confuse those things ? Its so strange..

Cyllid
Jesus is the feagurehead of Christianity. His figure is connected with lots of sujective miracles. Some people debate if Jesus having lived at all.

Ogmios
Some people debate also Mohammed having lived at all. Some even debating if holocaust took place. Please, those are certainly not the people who made the history.
Second, we self have experienced miracles without ever looking for such things. For this reason my wife atheist has changed mind over the 20 years we are together. So, what if you personally experience supernatural happenings. what then?? And still I am missing an explanation what the hell did Jesus wrong

Cyllid
It depends on whether it was truely supernatural, or if you didn't understand what was going on behind the scenes. Reminds me of when my friend saw a large ring around the moon, he was convinced it was aliens. This is an anecdote, a generalization about misperception, I don't know what you saw, so saying this is like your miracles would be pretentious. It wasn't aliens, it was light refracting from ice crystals formed int he upper atmosphere.

Ogmios
here is not the space to explain the whole story, but everyone who was told could not find any physical or logical explanation for. There exists no logical explanation. A whole series of such things happened throughout my life and that made me change my own views and convictions. There are involved also my loved one. None of them was or is religious in a classical way. None of us is visiting churches etc.

Cyllid
Is there any way to prove these stories? Other than accounts from family members.

Ogmios
I am not here to prove anything. I reject those religious staff who claim to have millions of proves trying to convince or to convert you to their strange staff. I did not seek such experiences, ergo why I should try to prove them. I dont see the reason.

Ogmios
Well, now that I am reflecting in regard to proves I remember that specific happening was whitnessed by a business friend and he is a muslim. Maybe this could be that kind of prove you have been looking for?
Now there is the question since you don't believe im me or my family: Do you believe in a muslim?
You see... forget that thing with the proves !!!

Cyllid
Now as for what Jesus did wrong. What people did wrong is always subjective. Borrowing from your holocaust example, some people think it was a great thing. Some, not all, and not me. Why people hate on Jesus, I think, is because he is the figurehead of Christianity. I was giving you some of their ammo, not their reasons, doh. It is easier to attack a figurehead, rather than the nameless faces working for him.

Ogmios
Jesus is not the figurehead of the church. The church is not Jesus his product but a pure human product. Jesus himself throughout his life never went to church for prayer, he went out in the nature or desert. If he would live today he would certainly do the same. Roman church does not represent Jesus in this spirit, but this is not Jesus his problem. It is the problem of mankind who does not understand the difference between Jesus himself and those who sometimes wrongly minister using his name indirectly damaging him.

Ogmios
Everyone believes what he WANT to believe. If you are convinced that a stone is your god, than this is your god. One thing is what people believes and another thing is the facts.
Fact is: Jesus his spirit is widely not represented by the roman church.

Cyllid
Everyone believes what he want's to believe. You believe Jesus is not represented by the church. The majority of Churchgoers would disagree with that. They believe it, and by your own theory (which is quite correct) you can argue that Jesus isn't represented by the church, but you will find much opposition. And for a fact to become fact, it needs to undergo much testing. And while I agree with your fact in theory, again, it is not proven, and it isn't made from testing, but from opinion.

Ogmios
For you everything is relativ. This is the classical islamic taqiyya system, where not the molester but the molested girl is guilty to be stoned.

Ogmios
Everyone believes what he wants to believe, this is the rule, expecially in retarded societies, except of the reasonable humans which are looking for the truth. There are not many of them, but still, there are...
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